Doublex

[Ty Ty]

If anyone is going to have a problem its going to be TY Ty (the guy who runs the jeep) but he is taking his audi.

Even the Jeep can safely navigate an Autocross course.  I simply know it's limits and don't foolishly try to go beyond them.

http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb264/springpoint01/Lewiston%208-10/6358dec2.jpg

http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb264/springpoint01/Lewiston%208-10/ae238666.jpg

[Not All There]

I was just using you as an example, im fully aware of your knowledge and ability of the heep!

[Ty Ty]

I was just using you as an example, im fully aware of your knowledge and ability of the heep!

I was trying to help with your example. 

[katnip]

wow, this is getting out of hand:

OK, I have a fairly typical rallycross car:

Impreza RS, adjustable AGX's, adjustable rear sway, endlinks, front strut bar, outback sport springs.  Where as most of the solo subarus are lowered to the point you can barely get a flat hand between the wheel well and tire, mine I can turn my girlie hand sideways (4 inches) and get it between the wheel well and tire. So my car has a slightly higher center of gravity!

Solo set up: front and rear full hard, sway bar at 22mm, Faulken azenis , traction A, temp A, 200 treadwear tarmac tire (A fairly sticky  tire)
rx set up: front and rear mid way, sway at 22mm (too lazy to change), medium compound rally tire.

what makes my rallycross car dangerous on a solo course?  I don't run R-comps, and I doubt many of the rx folks own any of those!  I ran at a Cumberland motor club solo event last Sunday, it was a tight, technical course, that I ran as hard as I could and never did I feel out of control.  Chang you have seen my car and how high it sits, do you really think it unsafe for a solo event?

doing a slolam


tight corner


one of the regulars with his built for solo wrx


which car looks like it could roll!!!?

[Chang]

I have seen stock class autocross cars roll, so even those scare me.  I have had my HS Civic up on two wheels. I had my GS CRX up on two wheels. I had Leverones DS Neon way up on two wheels.  Leverone had his 300ZX on the TTops.  More recently, there has been a Lancer? (Neil?) on its roof.  Now, you take a stock class car and raise it and put stickies on it and the potential for a rollover is higher.  I certainly worry less about rolling a STS or STX car than my DS car.  Will a rollover happen at the doublexx?  Who knows.  I dont want to find out the hard way.

Kat, you change your setup for autocross and for rallycross.  Just shock setting changes, but they are changes none the less.  I propose that for safety concerns we be allowed to change our setup Saturday after the autocross.  Believe me, the last thing I want to do on Saturday night is a lot of car work, but that is part of racing, even if just for Fun.  I think it will be more fun for everyone if the shiny side stays shiny...or the faded, rusted side stay faded, rusted...not dented.

Lets let the competitor decide on how much work they want to do on Saturday night.  We let the competitors decide how much work they want to do in the days, weeks, months, years before each event.

[pzahornasky]

Jumping back in...

To echo Chris' statement:

A safe event is one where competitors do not need to 'drive slower' to be safe.  The attraction of autocross is the chance to drive at 10/10 without undue worry about scratching paint.  If I were to compete in an rally-cross, it would be the same.  I have left autocrosses (NON-SCCA) because I felt that driving at 10/10 would be a safety concern.

As a former Solo Chair, event chair, Solo Op Steward, and Safety steward, I believe that it is the event organizer's duty to put safety first EVEN IF IT MEANS COMPRIMISING THE COMPETETIVE ASPECT OF THE EVENT. 

Not All There mentioned requiring DOT approved tires.  Obviously he has never driven on a Hoosier A6.  DOT approved and good enough to be on a Solo Championship winning E Prepared car a few years ago when the competition was on true racing slick.

Allow the suspension changes.

See you all at the Rally Friday night
(and don't forget to buy raffle tickets!)

Paul Zahornasky

[pzahornasky]

Even the Jeep can safely navigate an Autocross course.  I simply know it's limits and don't foolishly try to go beyond them.

http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb264/springpoint01/Lewiston%208-10/6358dec2.jpg

http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb264/springpoint01/Lewiston%208-10/ae238666.jpg

I have been to this lot.

I have seen video from an event at that lot.

It, and the fact that they let your Jeep run, is a clear demonstration of the lack of safety awareness that occurs.  The lot is not suitable for ANY autocross.

Just because YOU know your limits does not mean the other guy does.

Safety is doing your best to avoid issues, not hoping they won't happen.

[katnip]

As I told Chris when I spoke w/him last night, I don't believe that many Rallycrossers own r-comps/hoosiers, etc.  heck half will be running their rally tires or snows.  And very few have the ability to change their ride height, so the point is fairly moot!  We have taken the safety concerns very seriously.  Warren and I both own raised rallyx cars and both have run solo's with them.  He runs rcomps I run less sticky azenis,  I don't feel we are ignoring safety in any way.  Anyone who wants to discuss this, please call me this evening after 7:00 at 603-837-2075.

kathy moody
rallycross, co-chair

[Chang]

Why prohibit a competitor from making the car safer, or able to compete, if the competitor wants to?  All of the Solo cars that are prepared to ST, SP, P or M are too low to do the rallyX without bottoming out.  Most of those cars have coilovers and could easily raise their car to compete in the rallyX.
A rallyX car, at rallyX height, on Rcomps is not a safe thing.  Just because most of the competitors dont own Rcomps is not a reason to not take that into consideration for this type of event.
This is for fun, lets make it safe.

[Joe Davisix66]

who is in charge of this decision?

[Chang]

Who is in charge of this decision, that is a tough question.  The event organizer is.  The SCCA Solo rulebook and RallyX rulebook should have a say as does the insurance sanction.  We should all have a say as any incidents that may happen will affect our ability to get future insurance sanctions and put on future events.
There is a reason that high cg vehicles are not allowed to participate in Solo events. 
Playing devils advocate, say a rollover does happen and an incident report has to be written up, think about what will be written on the report.

[katnip]

A rallyX car, at rallyX height, on Rcomps is not a safe thing. 

Then if that is the case, how is allowing height changes going to help make it safer, if the concern is the rallycross cars?  I can't lower my car, neither can Warren, or Aaron, etc. etc. so the issue would still exist, just some of the solo cars could stay at solo height for the solo runs and add height for the rallycross.

Now, are you telling me that if I showed up in my car for a regular SCCA solo event I would be turned away because my center of gravity is higher than stock?

Kathy

[Chang]

Kat, your car is higher than stock, but you also have a flat boxer engine and the cg of your car is fairly low to begin with.  If you put Rcomps on your car, the potential for rolling would be higher than with Street tires.  If you lower your car with the Rcomps on, you then make it less likely to roll and thus safer.  You could probably raise a Corvette 2 inches and it would still have a lower cg than some vehicles that are lowered 2 inches (think 4wd pu).  But the laws of physics still says that a raised Corvette would be more likely to roll than a stock height Corvette.  Each vehicle is different.
What we are talking about is safety.  Why not allow a competitor to change their vehicle so it will be safer.  You allow competitors to prepare their cars as much or as little as they want to for all of the other events.  There are stock cars that have very little done to them and then there are competitors that run in Mod and do all sorts of things to their car.  This same reasoning should be allowed for all events, especially if it makes the car safer.
So that I no longer have a conflict of interest in this discussion, I am withdrawing from the doublexx.  I hope the event still happens, and I hope it happens safely so we can continue to have this event in future years.  It is a great concept if it can be done safely, and I hope that some Solo people will particpate in it in the future in there raised ST, SP, P, M cars for the rallyx.  I hope that some rallyx competitors will consider lowering there car for Solo if they put Rcomps or sticky street tires on their car.  Let's do this safely. 
I will continue with this discussion if warranted in the name of safety.
I do not want to see any of my friends damage their car or hurt themselves in something we do for Fun.

[Not All There]

I dont know whats worse, my old lifted jeep, or my "lifted RallyX" car lol.  As of right now, im questioning the safety of driving my car out of the driveway 

ANYWAYS.....


Doublex coming up! Hope it goes well. How many signed up?

[RALLY200SX]

I understand the safety issues involved. It may be too late in the game but, if I may suggest the following:

20 entries - 10 AutoX cars & 10 RallyX cars (or you could do 40 entries 20 & 20 - 40 runs total for each location same as previous and more $ for the charity)
Pull names out of a hat so you have one AutoX & one RallyX car on a "team"
The AutoX car runs the tarmac portition and the RallyX car runs in the dirt - add them up the team with lowest time wins.

I know what the intention of the event is and I would much rather have the oppurtunity to run both courses, but if safety issues are going to end the event then it could an option.