Thanks for a great time this Sunday.

[kpcasey]

Bob Lang, I think we found someone to moderate any future driver's meetings. 

Methinks Matt missed the drivers meetings that I did.

--kC

[athena_sts]

If we can get a car off every 20 seconds, that same 7 hour period with 138 competitors we could have gotten 9 runs each. 
Thanks,
Chang

yeah, in the best of all possible worlds [where i can also eat as much chocolate ice cream as i want without getting sick and get served lobster for dinner 4 nights a week] -- as it was, i heard a couple of fast drivers [Hank for one] mention having to slow down for the car in front of him on a run, and i heard a couple of requests come over the radio waves from course workers pleading that someone ask the starter to give 'em more space between cars!

BTW,  regarding instructions for novice course workers -- Neil's done a lot of work posting stuff on the solo pages -- there's a whole series of subheadings under General Information, including info on working the course and driver safety [cannibalized from Eddie S's old pdf files for NER handouts] -- is there any way that a notice could go out automatically when someone new registers for an event, suggesting that they get online and read said info ??

a.[thena]  16 N sts [still not fast but having a blast]

[Chang]

In one minute you can send two cars every 30 seconds or you can send three cars every 20 seconds.  If one in three needs a rerun, then we are at a break even with sending a car every 30 seconds. 

The starter really sets the pace for the event while the event is running.  It is a difficult task to get a car to finish 20 seconds apart.  A starter that is familiar with the majority of the drivers he is starting will go a long ways to helping to stop reruns for caught cars.  The starter should keep an eye on the finish to see the spacing of cars so for the next time around he will know whether to send that car sooner or later.

Workers that spread out instead of clumping together will go a long ways to help prevent reruns.  Lets be smart out there and play it like you are fielding in baseball, meaning you help cover each other.  If a particular cone is getting hit a lot, stand closer to that one.  If you see a fellow corner worker run after a cone and another one gets hit, you should share responsibilty and each go for the respective closer cone.

If you are at corner one and a cone gets hit, run to set it up and get out of the way.  Yes, the starter will probably wait for you to be clear and safe, but then you are the one holding up the event.  All the seconds add up to fewer runs for everyone by the end of the day.

Lets all look at the big picture and see what will help the event to run quicker.  We will all win by getting more runs.

Thanks.

[solo-x]

Chang's post reminded me of something I saw at station 1. A cone got hit. Two course workers were near the cone. Neither noticed the cone. After much yelling from grid, the cone was noticed. Both course workers started to go for the cone. Then both stopped. Then both started again.

Being the competitive sort, I want to reset more cones then any other worker at my station. Right up to the point where I'm going to pass out from exhaustion. That is the way everyone should view working the course. I want to see the cone first. I want to be the first to reset the cone. I want to be my station's MVP and I don't want ANY reruns to occur because I missed a cone. Now, everyone is human, and you're bound to miss a cone every now and again. You should be embarrassed when it happens and ashamed that you let one slip. Then steel your resolve to never let it happen again.

When you report to your workstation to work, or any time there is a break in the action (like the switch from cars to karts) you should be running out to check the important cones in your area to see if one got missed or had been slowly nudged out of its box. I didn't see that happen once all day.

On my last run, I counted 6! cones that were not centered in the box. My 5th run I was given a cone that I didn't hit that Kathy stopped for because the cone was missing. The course worker just assumed I hit it since I was the previous car. While I should have stopped for the cone, I didn't notice it at the time because it wasn't a cone that mattered to how I was driving that part of the course and I tend to "block out" non-essential cones. As a course worker, if you didn't see who actually hit the cone, you shouldn't just give it to the previous car. Put yourself in the drivers shoes and think how you'd feel if a negligent course worker that missed someone else hitting a cone just randomly assigned it to you. Not cool! If you missed who hit the cone, it is better to give the driver who DID hit it the freeby then to assign it to a driver that didn't hit it. 

[athena_sts]

Chang's post reminded me of something I saw at station 1. A cone got hit. Two course workers were near the cone. Neither noticed the cone. After much yelling from grid, the cone was noticed. Both course workers started to go for the cone. Then both stopped. Then both started again.

my first season and even i have stories, but it's not possible to fully indoctrinate new drivers in a  5 min. presentation at drivers meetings -- someone said earlier that at least one experienced worker should be at each station, but that person is usually in charge of the flag and radio, ergo not in a position to "role model" -- so, i'm gonna repeat my question:  what about suggesting new drivers better prep themselves by directing them to reading the critical stuff Neil has posted when they register ??

a.
PS to Neil -- what about cannabalizing Nate's post as a emphatic quote add-on to the "working the course" write-up ? (-:

[Neil Schelly]

I like the idea of anyone new to the sport going to the site and reading up on it. There really is a lot of great info in there now.  But making it an assignment will turn people away.  Making it suggested reading will make people ignore it.  I don't know where the middle ground is that makes people want to read it.

The fact is that when we have a lot of new people at an event, lots of them come but have no interest in "knowing" what they're doing.  At this last event, we had a _LOT_ of new people: not only people new to the club, but new to autocrossing in general.  Several I talked to showed an interest in learning what step was next or what was expected of them, so please don't generalize my comment to everyone.  Several though, exhibited very little interest and even an off-putting "whatever" approach to playing nicely with others.  The fact that I kept losing my spot in grid for example was quite frustrating when new folks were parking 6 feet apart from each other ahead of me, but those folks balked at me for asking if they could move and try to park closer/straighter.  They joked about me getting all upset over miniscule things among themselves, when I was not upset, but asking for help.  I think we can only hope that those who are so negative will just not want to come back perhaps - I don't know.  They aren't going to read whatever materials you offer, regardless of how you package it though.
-N

[PJ]

I find it very distracting when I drive by cones that are hanging out of their boxes, as I have to decide wether or not I want to stop for that cone, or drive around it (in possibly an unfair manner).  It's that reason that I'm with Nate in that I try to perfectly center every single cone in my area. 

Anyways, I only had to stop for one down cone, which the corner tried to say I had knocked down myself, even though I spotted it far enough ahead from a speed where I had to go off course just to screech to a stop to "park" next to the cone (not easy to do once my car gets going), then wait as long as possible for someone to acknowledge that I even stopped.

[DirtyThirtyIX]

This year, our club started performing an additional "Novice Drivers Meeting & Walkthrough" after the regular drivers meeting to go over some of the basics in detail.  It seems to be having a positive effect.  It allows the regular meeting to be a bit more brief, and allows the novice meeting to be more focused (and no veterans around chatting during the meeting).  I'm not sure whether this would be practical at NER events, but I thought I'd mention it.

I don't know that there's a way to get everyone to take pride in good course work.  It's often seen as a chore, rather than an opportunity to help make the event as good as possible.  It does take experience to become good at it though.  Most people only run through the timing lights once. 

[mattm]

Perhaps just ahead of the walk through, someone should displace a few pylons so that the novices can see just what we are talking about and reset them at that time.

[kpcasey]

Perhaps just ahead of the walk through, someone should displace a few pylons so that the novices can see just what we are talking about and reset them at that time.

*sarcasm* Too simple. Won't work. Need something more complex and contriving than that. *sarcasm*

Good idea. I don't know if resetting cones is talked about during the course walk. Covering a mile, it could probably be referenced several times.

--kC

[JWBrockman]

Hi, I didn't notice this forum until yesterday, but I just wanted to echo some of the sentiments that appeared earlier in the thread. I had a great time Sunday, lots of runs, and a really well run event. I'm looking forward to some more events with NER as the season winds down.

[athena_sts]

*Good idea. I don't know if resetting cones is talked about during the course walk. Covering a mile, it could probably be referenced several times.

as a novice, i disagree -- the course walk is for helping us figure out how to look at the course, not get lost or spin out onto the grass and DNF -- besides the problem really isn't the fact of "look, see: that cone is only partly in its box" [duh] it's about communicating the culture of taking pride in keeping the course right for other drivers, like Nate said. someone mentioned another club having an additional drivers' meeting for first timers -- that makes more sense, as a way to clue them in to some of the issues involved in doing a good job out there.  sort of like a coach's pep talk  --  hey, PJ, Novice Chief, what about it??

a.

[Will-VictorE-Lamb]

Perhaps just ahead of the walk through, someone should displace a few pylons so that the novices can see just what we are talking about and reset them at that time.

Agreed, that sounds like a very good idea, assuming all novices actually TAKE the walk-through.

[Brian Levesque]

as a novice, i disagree -- the course walk is for helping us figure out how to look at the course, not get lost or spin out onto the grass and DNF -- besides the problem really isn't the fact of "look, see: that cone is only partly in its box" [duh] it's about communicating the culture of taking pride in keeping the course right for other drivers, like Nate said. someone mentioned another club having an additional drivers' meeting for first timers -- that makes more sense, as a way to clue them in to some of the issues involved in doing a good job out there.  sort of like a coach's pep talk  --  hey, PJ, Novice Chief, what about it??

a.

I think it is a good idea to have the novice walkthru have some course stuff in it. (if bill wouldnt mind )it will help to have a visual aid like cones slightly out of the box (good idea matt) so they can see what happens to your driving line if there is a primary cone on the edge of the box. just talking about it will help but i know visual aids are much better and if the noobs can see what they are missing then overall it should help their experience at the race

[athena_sts]

... so they can see what happens to your driving line if there is a primary cone on the edge of the box. just talking about it will help but i know visual aids are much better

gotcha -- yes, now i see the point (-:  but the couple of cones [out of box + missing altogether] selected for this have to be carefully chosen to be ones that really demonstrate how it affects the driver's sight lines.

a.